Posted in Germany forum
I just read a story on Spiegel online which shocked me: According to a new study, more than 14% of German teenagers can be considered as "anti-foreigners", while more than 5% fall into the category of the righ extreme with Nazi-tendencies.
Surprisingly, the bad reputation of foreigners seems to be higher in those regions with little foreigners (so those regions where people don't even know what they talk about!!!).
The original article is here: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,613844,00.h
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To me - this is just another example of human ignorance, but for a foreigners living in Germany, these numbers are pretty scary!
What are your opinions and personal experiences with the way Germans see foreigners?
terrible
posted by Deleted user in Germany forum
"I am very sorry for the tone of this message but I've about had it. I think you are 100% right to feel hurt by this. I'm also starting to believe that the ONLY way I will eventually fit in here is to stop responding to English. "
Now that´s some really mean sh1t. If you really want a person who´s learning German to feel unsure ,make fun of their accent or language skills. Of course, you will also make a fool of yourself, for most native speakers don´t quite master their language to the point of perfection themselves.
Comentario
posted by Deleted user in Germany forum
Hey there, Carsten. In order to make comments readable for everyone, we should stick to English.
The thing with racism is that it is not exclusive to one nation or culture. It´s a part of human nature and it´s understandable that we can´t like everyone. Nevertheless ,corporal and/or verbal manifestations of racism should be avoided.
Hola
posted by Carsten Pfau in Germany forum
Hola Miguel, un gusto conocerte y muchísimas gracias por defender a Alemania y a los alemanes, por lo menos un poco. Como he expresado anteriormente en este sitio, estoy conciente que todavía hay cierto nivel de racismo en este país, sin embargo, creo firmemente que dicho nivel es bastante bajo, especialmente si se compara Alemania con otros países, o bien, regiones. Por supuesto, eso no quiere decir que no habrá que pelear más contra el prejuicio y el racismo todavía existente. Pero no estoy de acerdo bajo ningún concepto si se clasifica Alemania como un "país racista". Eso, no sería justo. Viví más que una decada en Sur América (Paraguay, Brasil, Argentina) y según mi experiencia, el racismo y sobre todo, el prejuicio están bastante presentes allá, y en gran parte de la populación, eso ni siquiera se ve como algo malo. No conozco aún Colombia pero tengo amigos allá y un día, me quiero ir. Cuentan que es bastante lindo allá. Estoy de acuerdo contigo - un extranjero que por lo menos intenta integrarse (claro, sin abandonar su propia identidad en el proceso) y se muestra abierto e interesado, será recibido bastante bien en Alemania, y por los alemanes. Claro, hay que cumplir con las leyes, aca y en cualquier país, aunque, aca es más difícil "arreglarse" con la policia si te pillan. En muchos aspectos, y quizas un poco saliendo de mi línea original, me siento muy crítico de mi país. Los alemanes, muchas veces exageramos las cosas, como por ejemplo lo de la puntualidad (creo que, solamente los Japoneses y los Ingleses nos ganan en eso). Personalmente, pertenezco al grupo de las personas pocas veces puntuales y creo que, en general, Alemania podría aflojar un poco en este asunto. Por gran parte, hasta disfruté de la actitud "maniana" de Sur América, y me encantó el hecho que la gente allá se muestran un poco más relajado con respecto a la hora, y la puntualidad. El idioma - bien, el alemán es difícil, y las muchas excepciones no lo hacen más fácil tampoco, pero nadie en su sana mente te va a criticar si no hablas 100% perfecto. Es el intento que vale, y eso creo que se puede decir de muchos países. Finalmente, te deseo mucho éxito en tus estudios (se puede saber a que Universidad atendés?). Espero que disfrutes tu tiempo en Alemania!!! Saludos cordiales!
General thoughts on this topic
posted by Deleted user in Germany forum
First of all, "hello" to everyone. I was doing some research on racism in my country and somehow I landed on justlanded, lol.
So I am originally from Colombia, but I have been living in Germany 2-odd years. I have never experienced racism. If someone has said something about me, it has been behind my back. Well, I remember this janitor we had in my previous living place and he was an idiot; I guess he didn´t like foreigners much. That was in East Germany, where I lived for a year or more. Some classmates of mine did experience racism, at times ,violence at the hands of young gangs of extremists. I was lucky to never experience that.
As a latin american, I have found Germans to be respectful, tolerant and friendly (in their own way). I dare to say I would have more problems in Spain, which is reportedly a very racist society.
If we want to adress the causes for racism, we should also mention the fact that many foreigners, especially of Arabic and Turkic descent ,haven´t quite integrated themselves in the German society and are more interested in criminal activities than in studying and generally being useful to the country.
As of now I am studying Psychology at a German university and am satisfied with the acquaintances I have made in my 6 months in this city. They are on the way to be friends. What people from other parts of the world should try to do is stop wanting Germans to understand them, but start trying to undertand Germans. After all, you´re in their country and you need to learn their language as well as you can, and try to like the culture. It´s got some cool things, albeit not many.
Last but not least, here´s a handful of tips to make your stay in Germany more comfortable, if not more endurable:
-Respect the law. The German police is very polite and they will help you with adresses and whatnot.
-Be friendly, but not too much. Germans don´t like pretending, nor people who do that.
-Be disciplined and punctual. You are not in your homeland. "Culture" is a very flexible concept for a foreigner in Germany willing to integrate, so ignore your impulses and imitate Germany´s worldly known love for discipline and punctuality.
-Learn the language and immerse yourself in the country´s history and culture. Although language is not the only requirement for a succesful integration, it surely plays a big role. I don´t think you will impress anyone by mixing words from your own language with the German language. Instead of being patriotic and thinking people are interested in your language, impress them with your command of a language they themselves acknowledge to be difficult, confusing and demanding. Once your German is good enough, read German literature ,read newspapers.That´s all I wanted to say. I hope it´s useful for someone.
hi
posted by cel elliot in Germany forum
hi all,
to Ken, i so get what you are saying, im considering moving to Germany, of course there is racisim everywhere but with Germany's history im a bit concerend, but more on the lines of if you have to attach a foto on the cv and you are black, the chances are you may not even get to the interview stage! i have a degree too, and professional work experience, i wonder if i could get a job on the same level (assuming i am a fluent German speaker).Does anybody know why they require a foto on a cv.
But i have made a trip to Hamburg in Feb this year, yes i felt people stared at me but i didnt mind because the same things happen when i travel in more rural places in the UK.
Hi
posted by Carsten Pfau in Germany forum
First of all, black is by far my favorite color. Whenever I can, I chose black - clothes, furniture, cars - you know.
The statement "black is the color of the devil" is merely an opinion. And, by the way, it´s simply not true. In most depictions, the devil is red, or painted as a goat-like creature. Demons are usually believed to be black, or rather "dark", for that matter. Darth Vader is dressed in black (Hollywood influences people much more than one would admit).
I would define racism as the feeling of rejection or even hate towards a person, or people, based only on race, nothing else. Therefore, racism can be experienced by anyone, at any given moment. The person who stated that "black is the color of the devil" would probably cheer for a black running back who´s about to score a touchdown, or doesn´t feel any hate towards the chinese restaurant owner who sells him a hot plate of kung pow chicken every now and then. I believe it´s a long way from subconsciously describing Darth Vader and actually feeling hate against another race. A very long way... By the way, priests usually dress in black...
So - the very serious issue of racism should not be confused with comments or trivial opinions that could be construed only by the devil´s advocat himself as racism.
Concerning your question - the devil as the one personification of all evil doesn´t really exist in most cultures. Probably, the depiction of demons or "dark spirits" in black, as it can be observed in art, religion or even history may come from people fearing the night - and the danger it used to represent to ancient humans.
Hi
posted by Carsten Pfau in Germany forum
Hi Ken,
as I can see, you posted a picture - I would say, people stare at you mostly in a positive way, you don´t look scary at all. Of course, I don´t want to underestimate racist tendencies and nationalistic behaviour in Germany. As far as I can see, Germany is among the countries that take this issue very serious and does a lot to fight racism. And, again, most people in Germany are not racists. That´s why it bothers me sometimes when Germany is put in such a negative light. I cannot say that there aren´t any racists in this country, because there are, but compared to so many other countries, it´s not that bad here. By the way - I was just thinking of me traveling to -let´s say- Kenia and let´s assume I was to travel to a remote area where no tourist ever goes - I am sure that people would stare at me too (probably because they don´t get to see a -slightely- overweight white person that often). I wouldn´t consider them racists...
However, I know what you mean and I feel sad about the moments you experience when race is clearly an issue. Still, I believe that Germany is among the most welcoming countries in the world. By the way - I´m ignored in stores all the time, and if nobody wants to sit next to you on the train, then I envy you, I hate it when somebody squeezes in the seat next to me ;-)
I really hope you get to a point where you consider Germany your home (at least, your second home) and I hope you get to know many Germans as true friends.
Hi
posted by Carsten Pfau in Germany forum
Hi Ken,
thanks for your post. Well, to be clear, I am not saying that there is zero racism or no rejection of foreigners among Germans. In a country with some 82 million people, you´ll find anything. Still, what I am saying and what I am convinced of - Germany is among the LEAST racist or anti-foreign countries in the world. I fight you and anybody else on that ;-)
If you have lived in other countries and especially if you have lived outside Europe, you know what I mean. If you are black, or asian, or somehow diffrent from the average German, you might be stared at. So what? Maybe people stare at you in silent admiration. Maybe you are very good looking, who knows. Guess what happens if Boris Becker or Claudia Schiffer go grocery shopping in Germany - they´re stared at, a lot!!! Can´t get a job in Germany? Well, join the club, there are hundreds of thousands of highly qualified Germans who can´t get a decent job either (and there are millions of unqualified people who can´t get a job no matter what). However, I truely believe that you will eventually find the right job, even in Germany, if you are as qualified as you say you are. Racism, as the word suggests, is directed towards your race (not for example your religion or your sexual orientation). There might be people in Germany who don´t know any better and reject you because of the colour of your skin. That is indeed very sad and I feel truely sorry for those people. However, I still believe that a large mayority in Germany would welcome you. If you didn´t feel safe and accepted in Germany or amongst Germans, I would feel very sorry. However, I am sure that racist behaviour is worse in other countries and other regions of the world, and it is not even seen as something bad. There might still be racism in Germany - but I would place a bet that 9 out of 10 randomly chosen Germans would say that racism is bad. Try the same in the Middle East, in Latin America, in certain areas of the US, in Russia, in China...
Besides skin colour and country of origin, there are of course other aspects to consider. For example, gay people are openly discriminated in many, many countries. In some places in Latin America, gays are recommended to ask for an Exorcism to be performed - I am not joking. It is not easy for gay people in Russia, in some areas of the States, or even in European countries. If you are openly gay, you might get stared at in Germany - because you are different, which doesn´t mean "bad" or "negative". At least, you can chose to be openly gay in Germany and most likely, people will leave you alone (exceptions occur, I am aware of that).
Again, my point is: Germany may not be perfect, but it is NOT a racist country. Some Germans stare at you because you´re different - let them, just think of yourself as a celebrity and enjoy the status ;-)
Racisim ist a norm!!!
posted by patrick eso in Germany forum
@Casten pfau and Gary Angelone.
I agree that in some cases Racisim can be from the Subconcious mind,but the sterotyping where does it begin?.How damaging ist within the society say Germany?.I. What understand casten pfau that there are elements in the southern U.S where racial profiling does exist uptil today.I believe that the US has some mechnism in place to check mate all these situations.But we are here talking of the case in German society.Where are the Mechnism in place to deal with all forms of sterotyping and minority advancement. What is the level of your Human Rights as a member of the G7.In Europe as of today the best human Right nation among in the G7 is the united KingDom. Ask anybody from outside Europe.You should not compare Germany with Spain their are not on the same level intens of international sphere of world interest. If say France yes I will agree with you.But the French are trying to improve on their minority groups among them.The problem in Germany is too complicated. It needs overhauling in every sector of the society.The school system and the teachers needed to be readressed how to really integrate the minority around them.In Germany how many minority have a chance to become a Lawyer, as policeman,be appointed in special position of Authority.All you here is Deutschland is for the deutscher.There should be good Human Rights plans and methods in place. In England if you are applying for a job their are sections that you have to fill out that deals with this act.This is treated as confidential .There is excessive authority and control in Germany. Their are these aspect of Natural Jealouseness in born.Their is too much unhappiness in the Air.Is this as a result of the Last War,or the Culture. For me these a great concern.When I met some Germans outside their country the are very warm and more friendly than other Europeans ,but coming and Living with them becomes another story. Completly opposite .Is these only a prentice when there are abroad?.My friends complain thesame thing.May be someone here knows why?.I will only Live where there is Human Rights practice and open records in place.